Thought Leadership Ads & Zero Click Content

Taylor Wells (00:01.293)
Hey everyone, welcome to the GTM News Show. I got Casey here today, hey Casey.

Casey Hill (00:06.866)
I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Taylor.

Taylor Wells (00:08.721)
Yeah, great to have you. So Casey is works for ActiveCampaign. He's a senior growth manager. And I actually saw an ad, he was running a thought leadership ad on LinkedIn. He was running under his profile for ActiveCampaign that just had a ton of value in it. I liked it, commented. I was like, this is an awesome example of a thought leadership ad, zero click content. And in the world, especially B2B, go to market.

where everyone's spending more money getting diminishing returns on every channel, it seems like, especially paid media. The clients I work with, it's just getting harder and harder to drive results. What we're seeing is a little glimmer of light is the thought leadership ads, zero click content. How do we provide value through advertising, through ads? So I want to get Casey to come on to see what he's seen and his thoughts. I'm sure we'll kind of dive in to go to market and B2B marketing and

talk shop in those other areas. But first, Casey, I'd love to hear just from you. At first, maybe how would you describe to the audience if they haven't heard of what thought leadership ads are on LinkedIn or other platforms, how do you describe that? We'll start there.

Casey Hill (01:20.106)
Yeah, for sure. So I mean, essentially a thought leadership ad is often like you take a standard post on LinkedIn that's providing something of value, some sort of topical authority. So you're talking about an issue that you know extremely well, and then you're promoting that as an ad. So the idea is instead of an external ad, you're promoting existing content, something that you've already posted, and then you're going to kind of just put additional reach with a paid budget behind it. That's that's kind of the core of that. And I think why it's really exciting, as you kind of noted at the top is this idea of

what if we can actually add value through the ad experience, right? Ads tend to be very much, you know, just a state like a baity statement. Oftentimes you're trying to peek a little bit of curiosity. You're trying to push someone somewhere and there's not any real value that's delivered by the recipient. So I think this idea in a crowded ecosystem of how can you stand out by building trust? In some ways that's the big barrier that we're addressing with this conversation is that standard ads don't really deliver any type of trust.

But if you speak to an issue and you give someone something tangible that they can take away and apply to their business or solve a problem or have that kind of aha moment, you are now seen as an authority, you are now seen as a leader. And I think where people often miss the ball with a lot of these things is they feel like, okay, Casey, but if it's not directly promoting my product, how is that kind of connected in? Like, is that really gonna have value for me? What I've found from running a lot of these and spending a lot of budget on experimentation,

is if it's in the lane of where your product serves. So I'll give you an example. I run stuff specifically around a deliverability consultation that I did. And here's all the things to think about with deliverability. Now, I work for ActiveCampaign. We do marketing automation and email marketing, right? And so that has a connection. But I'm not mentioning ActiveCampaign directly. But by building authority around that, or building authority around conversion rate optimization, or how should you run a newsletter, those topics all dovetail and connect back to my service.

So when someone looks and they say, oh, Casey is an authority around email marketing, oh, Casey's with Active Campaign, that connection becomes what actually drives people through the door. And so it's really exciting to experiment with, and we're experimenting actually kind of on two faces with this. We're experimenting with promoting employee posts, but we're actually also experimenting with promoting outside partner or customer posts. So one of the things that's very interesting is the prerequisites for one of these thoughts

Casey Hill (03:48.074)
thought leadership ads, if you will, is they need to have the company name, the company in their job history. But if you reach out to someone and you say, hey, if you put active campaign partner and set that to present, it has to be set to present, then we have the ability to promote your stuff, right? So it becomes this win-win where you can get that thought leadership coming even from someone not at the company, you get that amplification from the outside.

and they're getting free exposure. Most people, if you say like, hey, can I go spend $500 a day to promote your content? People are like, sounds great, right? So I think it's kind of fun to see both sides of that test, both with internal thought leadership on our team and with customers.

Taylor Wells (04:32.189)
Oh super cool. I'm just taking some notes on mine. I think you hit a couple really cool points in there first number one was thought leadership ads when you're as a pattern disruptor, right most people are you know when they see an ad the minute they see sponsor or the minute they uh, you know, we all we all are we're like trained and I think even now just because like I think the average person sees anywhere from it's like 500 to 10 000 ads in a day depending on uh forester did a study recently on this and

It's crazy. I mean, as we see a day, right. And so the pattern disruptors, number one, is you're like, you can stand out. Number two in that is it's selfless. And I think on the show, a lot of folks are listening. They'll hear me talk about selfless content, right. That content that actually serves people. So you're in that example of that email deliverability. You talked about, you know, you did analysis and that's why I loved it. It was like, you know, I think seven to eight points. Right. And it looked like a typical.

Not typical, but just a great, just like you breaking down something and educating me on something. And then you promoted it. And if you follow like anybody in like Gary Vee or really anybody in like advertising or marketing in general, Dennis Wu, who pioneered the dollar a day strategy and whatnot, he talks about taking, you know, figuring out your organic post really well and then promoting those. Because those are those are going to are ultimately going to what's going to drive.

engagement that the most organic looking piece of content is what's going to resonate with people because it doesn't look like an ad, right? So I think you're hitting a bunch of points there. And then I also love what you said, two to three degrees away, maybe from directly to your product, right? Where it was the it's it ties back, right? But it's not you.

It's not even you talking about email automation and per se it's like a segment of it. So it's not direct It's like first not first degree. It's almost second or third degree and I think in general that also provides like it's It's another ways of like going one step further of being selfless versus you just figuring out some that's closely tied your product as possible You're becoming an expert a holistically where it's like you're looking at it from every single angle

Taylor Wells (06:44.057)
and that builds that trust with people versus you just going in and trying to like, what's the first pain point that your product solves and then going in hard on that. Not to say there's not value in that, but I think the second and third degree, uh, thought leadership is, is really powerful. And last thing you said, which I have not heard yet is promoting, um, job history, excuse me, uh, tapping into your, your employees and partners maybe that don't work with you anymore. And I immediately thought of like employee advocacy, number one,

Right. Like you're able to tap into like for you, Casey, like you are not only building it's a benefit for you, number one, because you're building your own personal brand through this. But it's you know, we all know people buy from people. So there's you're tapping into your employees. But then you're also talking about former employees and partners. Can you dive a little bit deeper into that of like how you guys have seen any successes or pitfalls you've seen in the employees and partners?

Or just in general, maybe you don't have somebody that's creating content already, right? You're obviously creating content for LinkedIn. How do you engage folks? How do you make sure they're creating the right content? Yeah, I'd love to hear more on that.

Casey Hill (07:57.366)
Yeah, here's how you can think about it with customers or with partners. So when I go for a channel, this is kind of overall go-to-market, I always try to think of layering. And what I mean by layering specifically is I try to not just go in from one point of attack. So right now on LinkedIn, I'm trying to mobilize our entire team to post thought leadership. We're also running paid ads. We're also running a campaign called social amplification where we reach out to customers and we try to get our customers to post about their use cases.

Why are you using ActiveCampaign? What's working for you? What's a big win? So we're coming at the channel from three different directions. Now, because we're coming at the channel from three different directions, every single week we have 10 plus customers that come onto LinkedIn and post their experiences about ActiveCampaign. Those might be customers or partners, or agencies, et cetera. So I might go to those folks and might say, hey, I loved your story about why you migrated over from MailChimp.

And I would love to help promote that. And all I need from you is if you just add ActiveCampaign into your history, I'll actually be able to run paid promotion. You'll get a little ping from me that says, do you want to allow ActiveCampaign to run this promotion? You'll say yes. And that will then start going out there. So it dovetails really nicely in that we have this content that's already being created as part of our multi-pronged strategy on the channel. And now we're just amplifying it. Again, we're using paid to increase...

the reach there. And so I think, too, when people think about this, if you think about a funnel, right, part of why we have it two to three degrees removed, as you said, is that the more top of funnel you go, the more generally applicable it's gonna be. And so the wider audience you're gonna be able to speak to, the better click-through rate you're gonna get. There's absolutely a place for retargeting ads. There's absolutely a place for bottom-of-the-funnel content that's focused on converting people.

But a mistake that has happened for a long time in B2B marketing is people keep using the word demand generation when really they're talking about like demand conversion, right? This retargeting, this bottom of the funnel, these comparison articles, this is for people that already have a lot of that interest, right? So that's already, that demand is already there and you're essentially helping convert it over to your tool specifically. But I think if you're trying to take a step back and say we need to create new demand,

Casey Hill (10:16.854)
That new demand is often created because of that topical authority, because of new things that you're educating people on in this space where they say, oh wow, that is absolutely a problem I'd like to solve. Now they move a little farther down that funnel, right? Now maybe they start following you and now they see other content that you produce. Or now maybe they're kind of keyed into thinking about, oh, I really should redo my newsletter. Oh, this is really basic. I plan to upgrade at some point.

And again, you move down those steps. So I think that would be a little bit of a takeaway here is to not only have your strategy as much as possible be kind of multifaceted, but if your focus is on demand generation, to make sure that you are having content that is as widely valuable as possible, that is platform agnostic content to achieve that goal.

Taylor Wells (11:07.865)
Mm-hmm. I love it. That's awesome. And and kind of two points we'll dive into especially platform agnostic I'll get back to that But I think to even talking through tapping into your customers tapping into your partners tapping to your employees Especially so employees in general like when you see anyone creating content for their company There's I think there's for me personally there's an implicit like they kind of a bias right like even though your content was awesome I knew there was some sort of motivation right to

promote active campaign. And so your content even has to be that much better, right? Has to provide that much more value for you to build that trust with me. And I think it did. And and kudos to you for creating that content that was valuable enough to be like, oh, wow, this guy knows what he's talking about. He's not just trying to pitch active campaign. He's trying to build a relationship. He's trying to provide value, create that demand generation, etc. But what's really powerful and I think in general is, I mean, there's like.

There's two I think there's two veins or two roads We're going down in this world especially like with AI and whatnot number one is You either have to provide a tremendous amount of value before they come a cut become a customer kind of high level, right? Like if you're not if you're not solving a problem before they become a customer You're not gonna build that trust and rapport your competitors are probably to get to them first The other way to go to market is through relationships and what's really cool is you're doing both in this situation you're tapping into your employees your customers because honestly like

Our customers, they kind of care what we have to say, but they really care about what their peers have to say. Fellow customers, they really care about what other folks in the market, like partners, agencies, and stuff like that. So if you can get their voices talking about providing value, like one level, and I'm like, I'm literally getting goosebumps, because this is such a sweet combination of strategies. You're rocking here.

You're able to not only provide value right high-level selfless content we talked about but you're also getting it from the voices of people they trust because Once again, we have a bias because we're promoting our products, right? So any thoughts on that or anything you've seen success with this kind of multifaceted? idea

Casey Hill (13:16.115)
Yeah, I think just to kind of build on what you're saying a little bit, the way that I like to think of it is, I came into the company and I looked and I said, look, we have a lot of content that is kind of directly promotional. And the way that I like to see it in a perfect world is, if our customers can be the ones promoting and selling for us, if they can be putting out promotional content about how great Active Campaign is and all these great benefits, and we can stick to topical authority,

So our focus from an employee perspective is just build trust, just share firsthand information. I have been mobilizing our team. We have 45 people in a Slack channel called Operation LinkedIn. And we have every week, I'm monitoring, I'm coaching folks. We have something I call the 10K Club, which means if you get 10,000 views in a week, you get to join the 10K Club. And so trying to celebrate and help develop people that are new to the channel. And some of the things that I tell folks is number one, don't be promotional.

Right? Don't just regurgitate blog content, post things that are system agnostic. Your focus is to build yourself as a trusted authority in the key areas that you operate. So that's going to be different for sales. It's going to be different for engineering. It's going to be different for marketing and product. Right? But your goal is to come out there and share firsthand experiences. What I found a lot of success and I do a lot of analyzing on channels like LinkedIn is a couple of factors. Number one, share actual real firsthand experience of things that you are doing.

Right? There's so much just general kind of like fluffy high level. I give people the example. I say, if you go out there and you tell people you should split test your emails, that's a useless statement. That means nothing to me. That's like complete general fluff. If you say, look at, we just finished a two month experiment. We ran four different tests. Here was the open rate on all four of those. Here was the click through rate. Here was the subject lines. Okay. That's cool. That's valuable. Right? Now someone reading through, I can actually look at that.

And if you're in my industry, if you're in my space, I'm like, oh wow, that subject line won over, I'm gonna go then take that, I'm gonna share that post with someone internally on my team who runs email and say, hey, do you think we might wanna run a test around this angle? It seems like it's really working for this other person in our space. Boom, that's brilliant, that's great content. But the hesitation that folks have is they often don't wanna get into the details and they don't wanna provide specific data. But that's exactly what you need to do, in my opinion, to be as successful as possible. So,

Casey Hill (15:35.71)
I think that you want to protect confidentiality where it makes sense. But a good example is I ran a thought leadership, uh, ad around a deliverability consultation that I did, and I literally took the notes from that consultation. I scrubbed out anything that had to do with the client, right? I'm not going to, you know, put their, their information out there, but I then used actual real notes from that conversation. Like this was actually things that were delivered to the client, just slightly edited to remove any kind of like personalization. And so.

I think it's things like that or what actually build trust. And I did a post actually just yesterday analyzing my top performing. I said, these are like a hundred K plus impression posts. What is the commonality kind of between these? And I did a carousel where I was lining up a whole bunch of these. And one of the ones that showed up in every single one of those was using specific data and firsthand experience. That was the common thread. There was different formats. Some use graphics. There's, we can get into all sorts of different pieces around that.

but the one common thread is they all used specifics. And I think that is such an important takeaway for folks that are thinking about how to succeed on LinkedIn or thinking about, you know, the algo changes hurt a lot of people. So earlier this year, I was one of those folks, my views got cut in half on a week over week basis when that algo changed. So then I was like scrambling, trying to figure out. And now over the last two months, I've climbed back and I'm doing better than I've ever done on LinkedIn as a channel, even before the change. And so...

you absolutely can stabilize, but it takes embracing some of those large tenants. And one other quick thing I wanted to let folks know is just a couple of things to be aware of when it comes to thought leadership ads, some limitations that I found from experimentation. So one is it won't let you do carousels, which is a bummer because I really like carousels, but if you have a carousel format, it will not let you add it into the queue to promote. So that's one thing to be aware of.

The other one is video clips. If you have a video clip, it will not let you add to the queue. Another, again, frustration, because I love carousels and I love videos, but those are two ones that I've seen, it just doesn't let us add it into the queue period. As well, if you have a really old post, if you try to promote something that's over three months old, I've also seen it just doesn't show up. It's not a selectable option when you go to that dropdown as well. So just wanted to give Sookx a couple of very specific kind of tangibles. If you're...

Casey Hill (17:55.254)
trying this out and you get confused, you're like, I'm trying to promote this post, but I don't see it. Those are three reasons that might be the case.

Taylor Wells (18:01.981)
Oh, super cool, Casey. And I think you just literally practice what you preached in the sense of like, what are you seeing from a practitioner? I think like thought leadership in general. I talked about this, I think the last week episode with in regards to like we are really maybe a couple of weeks ago, we're in the age of like the practitioner, where people don't want this person that was successful 10 years ago.

To share about you know split testing like you mentioned earlier, but like getting to the nitty-gritty like what worked yesterday What do you what are you doing today? What do you plan on doing tomorrow? And I love how you said? Data right insights specific insights of like actual measurable. I did this I achieved this And the other thing you said firsthand stories, right of like firsthand experiences and things like that I love we have a couple more minutes left. I love for you to dive a little bit deeper into

So it's not like you're doing a ton of stuff to mobilize your team, your customers, your partners. How have you gotten buy-in with all those said parties, just high level? I'm specifically wondering, I can understand probably internally, obviously get the executive team maybe to get buy-in and then set the example, et cetera. I'm really curious, how do you get your customers and your partners to post? What, I see that the benefit on the back end of you were like, hey, we'll...

We'll boost it, we'll get it, we'll promote it for you, we'll get your name out there, we'll get you free marketing, et cetera. How do you do on the front end, or is that what your kind of incentive is that we'll promote it more? But yeah, how do you get your customers and partners to post?

Casey Hill (19:33.59)
Yeah, it's a great question. It's something that I'm continuing to experiment and learn more from. So I'll tell you kind of what my experience has been so far. So when I started out, I reached out to people, I had an email that came from me and I essentially just was totally honest. I said, look, I'm a new member to ActiveCampaigns team. And one thing that frustrated me when I came on board this team is that all of our content just comes from us, right? And I want to hear your story. I want to know why you use this tool. I want to know what's working, what's not working. And we reached out to folks that had positive sentiment from NPS surveys.

So we sent out an NPS survey, we saw people that had positive sentiment, which basically means that they'd given us a nine or 10 in those sentiment surveys. And we just said, hey, we'd love to hear your story. That angle worked fairly well for that cohort, right? So we got dozens and dozens of folks who basically, who were just passionate about the product. They were like, yeah, I love the tool, it's done great things. Obviously you're not going to have, no tool has a hundred percent, like all your people are just geared up and like, I love this so much that I'm just gonna go do this out of goodwill.

First, I think, but I think as part of the kind of the strategy there is you will have advocates that will do that. So I think that if you're able to run any surveys, if you understand where your customer sentiment is, start with the low hanging fruit. Start with the partners, the super users, the advocates, the people you know are happy and are successful. And I think you'll be surprised at how many of those people if you don't make it too structured to we didn't tell people like you need to post about this very specific thing. It was very much like I want to hear your story. I was trying to put them in the driving seat.

And like, we're going to share this with the whole team and get everyone to hop in and activate on it. So that was the first piece. But then after that, we obviously realized that was a pretty finite pool. So I started creating a list with my team. I said, what do we have besides just monetarily paying people, which I don't want to do, that feels just wrong. Uh, what do we have that we can contribute back as a company? Like kind of a, what we can do for you, what you can do for us. So we started to build a list and we're like, we have a ton of expertise. We have top leaders in all these different.

Categories come conversion rate optimization PPC brand design like we have all of these different resources as a company How can we leverage some of those? Hey, you want to hop on a one-on-one growth consultation? Like I would normally charge 300 plus dollars an hour to do that I will do that for free in exchange for this post like you start leveraging the value that you have as a company Just in your human resources in your human capital and that had great results We had a lot of people that were excited and hopped in

Casey Hill (22:00.706)
There's also this idea of reciprocity. And what we experimented there is we said, we're running a social campaign and we wanna bring more of your stories to the forefront. But in exchange for that, we also wanna know how else can we support you? Can we leave a five-star review? What if we got 10 members of our marketing team to listen to your podcast and leave you good reviews? Would that be valuable? Can we hop onto any of your social channels and engage on your content? Like what else can we deliver as part of that interaction?

that would be valuable to you. And once again, we had a lot of people that were like, yeah, that would be awesome. We would love if you would, you know, check out our podcast, right? And so you start to find these levers of where's their reciprocity of value. And that's really when we hit the inflection point, right? Where we went from like, we're getting a couple of these advocates, we're getting some partners, we're getting some great content, to really opening that up and getting that consistent drip of 10 plus people a week coming out and posting these great things. And what was so...

encouraging and exciting about it is even without these really strict parameters, like we're not telling people like, say why you love us over a competitor, you know, like we're not molding it like that, but we saw so much of those, that type of content that I would call like pretty promotional content that just got naturally produced. People would just, they would talk about that. Hey, we actually were using this tool. It didn't work very well. And then we came over here and this is what we're doing now. And this is the thing we love most about the system. All the kind of points that we wanted to drive home.

They were just delivering for us. I was like, this is amazing. And so my continual effort, even now, I mean, we've only been running this for a little over a month. So this is brand new, right? And we're each week, we're adapting and pivoting. So as we continue to evolve, my head continues to go to how can we support people? How can we add value? Active Campaign is a 900 plus employee team. So we have a lot of humans on our end who should be able to jump in there. And so it's actually something I strongly recommend for folks to do.

not just in this vein, but for partnerships overall, which we could have a whole, another digression about how to do partnerships, but write down, actually sit your team down and create a list outside of just money. What do you have to offer? And just literally start laying that out. And we put all of this on the board. I ran a course business where I taught courses on podcast guesting and on Quora, on LinkedIn, all these different subjects. I'm like, I will give people my course, which I normally charge $300 for. I'll give that for free. I started brainstorming.

Casey Hill (24:24.142)
all the different assets and collective kind of capital that we have as a team. And I think that's a really good exercise for all folks to do just to know what you have is leverage in your pool.

Taylor Wells (24:34.665)
Oh, that's cool, Casey. And we're going to have to have you back on the show just to go through all of that and partnerships too. I love I'll take you up on that because I think we can we can definitely have a have you back and talk more really insightful stuff. And I think in general, just takeaways for folks who are about up on time here is like big picture for running ads. This is definitely, I think the future I'm seeing and maybe in closing, if you could share maybe some early successes you're seeing from it, maybe from metrics you could share.

And then include if you can tie that in with Platform agnostic content. I think zero-click content is a term has been thrown around a lot spark to row has kind of pioneered that Google is now doing that a lot with AI and whatnot kind of a side conversation, but Yeah, just enclosed. I'd love to hear from that and then in general for folks to know like

This is the future of how do you get and I think there's a lot of great marketing principles that you have in here, whether it's leveraging the voice of your customer, leveraging the voice of your partners and then taking that content and then obviously putting it through ads is just a sweet combination. And as ads have been, you know, you can do that organic too, right? Doesn't have just to be ads, but yeah, really cool concepts in general. And then also the assets of your organization. That's so powerful because I think there is to your point. You have so much different.

You have a competitive advantage, just your people, right? So how do you're leveraging the competitive advantage of your talent internally? Has nothing to do with your product, right? Like a lot of the things you just mentioned have nothing to do with your product, but things that you can give back to the community, give back to your partners, give back to your customers, super cool. So in closing, two things for you to ask, if you wouldn't mind, just high level metrics, what are you seeing, different conversion rates, et cetera, just to kind of throw people out there, show people. And then if you could dive deeper, like just a minute into the platform agnostic, what do you mean by that?

Casey Hill (26:24.402)
Yeah, so for sure. So I think oftentimes in the software world where I come from, we shoot for like the common number they throw out there is a three to one LTV to CAC ratio, right? Customer lifetime value three to one. And this year it's been pressed a little bit. Some people are saying we actually need four to one customer lifetime value to CAC as like SaaS has been pressed to be more efficient, but as a barometer.

Um, we've been blowing that out of the water in terms of ratio of that right there. We've been getting 7% plus click through rate. Now I want to be clear when people think about click through rate, understand click through rate needs to be treated a little bit different from a standard ad because although click through rate is dramatically higher than most ads that we run when you're seeing seven, 10%, that does mean that someone's clicking to expand and read a post, which is probably a different level of intent than someone clicking on like, you know, to go to a page, to start a trial. So.

take that with some lenience in terms of the click through rate. But the flip side of this is the actual like acquisition from these are also quite strong. And that is what ties into that LTV to CAC. So we're actually seeing second and third degree. I kind of liked how you coined that Taylor second or third degree content that is directly producing sales at an efficient LTV to CAC ratio in a short term.

Which is remarkable, like I wouldn't have even guessed that. If you would have asked me coming in, I would have said, you need to layer this in for months and months and you're gonna need to build authority and it's gonna take time because it's not, again, it's not directly promoting a product. So they're gonna need to see one thing and then follow you and see another thing. So to already see efficient ads from a cost per acquisition standpoint, that early on, right? With a 30 cents, 40 cents cost per click and with a high click through rate.

I think it's remarkable. So I'm very, very bullish on the overall concept. We're continuing to experiment with different formats, different hooks, different types of content, things that I might call like indirect positioning. So there's a whole bunch of different ways that we're kind of thinking about this overall category. But I'm again, very bullish from the initial data that we've kind of looked at. And I think we've promoted maybe 15 to 20 different types of posts.

Casey Hill (28:37.214)
so far, including both my posts and the customer slash partner posts. And the last piece, when I say system agnostic, it just means stuff that generally can apply to any system. Right. So I work for a marketing automation company, but as soon as I start talking about active campaign only, everyone else tunes out all the other people that are using those tools, like, oh, it's not relevant to me, right. But if instead you take a layer up and you talk about email best practices, well, everyone who's using email can take advantage of email best practices. So now they can tune in, they can pay attention.

Casey Hill (29:07.45)
And one of the things we talk about a lot in B2B is that a lot of people are not currently in market. So what you're doing by being platform agnostic is you're saying that person who's using a competitor, if you talk about your tool directly, they're going to tune out. But if you start building a bunch of authority, maybe when that person's frustrated or they're looking to upgrade or they're looking for a change, now you're top of mind as an option, as an alternative. So that's the value of having a platform agnostic strategy.

is you're building that trust for them to find out at a later date because they're connecting that authority to your name and your name is connected to your brand. And so that's kind of the totality of what I would say. And if I could just wrap up too, and just one comment, I would say replicability is incredibly powerful. And so what I mean by replicability is when you write a post, ask yourself, can someone look at this and then go replicate and do a thing? Because a lot of times people...

Casey Hill (30:03.79)
throw out the words like actionable and other things, and those are fine, but I think I would almost try to even sharpen it a little bit more to the word replicable, because replicable specifically to me means an insight that you gave can go be applied somewhere. So again, with the split test example, if I included the exact subject line, the exact structure of how it was laid out, that would be, I think, what would help someone be able to go replicate, versus saying, hey, our subject lines that use curiosity outperformed our subject lines that use mystery.

Okay, that's kind of interesting, but it's not, it's clearly not replicable because you're not giving me any like specifics, right? So I think it's just an important thing to walk away. Um, I know there's a lot of things thrown out, uh, today's chat, but it's a good litmus test for you.

Taylor Wells (30:46.989)
Super great Casey. That's awesome. I love you ending the Yeah things that are you can repeat and that they can actually go do and I think people there's a lot of advice out there Right and but actually what's tangible what's like specific enough that somebody can actually go Execute I think that content I mean that's what served me the most I know the content I consume the most of stuff that I'm like, hey I can actually go implement it and then you have that positive feedback loop of like oh man This person actually changed my life. It actually created

What I call like impact, right? Like not just value, because I think value is really, it mean a lot of things to a lot of different folks, but like impact, how can you create content that actually creates impact for people? And that ability to replicate is super cool. That's awesome Casey. Well, we're gonna definitely have to be back on because I've loved this conversation. I learned a ton. I have like a bunch of notes I'm gonna review. I'm gonna watch it myself again, just because this is such a great, great conversation. I'll have to be back on. How can folks follow you online and keep up with your?

content and thought leadership.

Casey Hill (31:45.366)
Yeah, two channels. Again, we're talking a lot about LinkedIn. So I post a lot on LinkedIn. If you just go to LinkedIn, Casey Hill, you can find me, the one who works at ActiveCampaign. So go ahead, follow. I'm posting seven, 10 times a week. I have a very high posting velocity and I'm posting about organic growth, conversion rate optimization, email strategy. And I try to have all of that from firsthand experience. So if folks are interested with that, definitely feel free to follow me there. I also give my email, chill at activecampaign.com. That's C-H-I-L-L at activecampaign.com.

If you have a question either about ActiveCampaign or just about anything we talked about today, feel free to drop me a line and I'm happy to get back to you.

Taylor Wells (32:21.765)
When you when you we scheduled our podcast recording and I saw your email I was like, oh Is this a mistake or did you have like it and I was like, oh I get it I took me a second. I love the email. It's great. Really memorable great little marketing Hashtag chill or something like that. I don't know but super cool Casey. Thanks for coming on. Thanks everyone for listening And we'll see everyone next week Thanks

Casey Hill (32:43.895)
Thanks Taylor.